Book Discussion - chapters 43 and 44

[into_the_greenwood]

Here we are, arrived at the penultimate chapter discussion. Chapters 43 and 44 deal with Maurice and Alec as they meet in London to talk about Alec's letters and the supposed threat behind them. The chapters open with Alec waiting for Maurice outside the British Museum, and here we discover something more about him, and his view of the world. He wants to stay in the woods, but to 'get on' must leave the country. Maurice at this point has reached the stage where he is open to anything happening, and he no longer worries or panics, resulting in him being able to see through what is happening on the surface and make sense of what Alec is really saying behind all the pride and bluster.

Part of their conversation takes place by the Assyrian Bulls, artefacts which originally would have formed part of a gateway. In Assyria half animal-half man statues were built in gateways in order to guard and protect those who went through. It's surely no coincidence that Forster had the two men walking between the figures. It's in the presence of these massive figures that they smile at each other, transcending whatever argument Alec is trying to make, and that Maurice is sidestepping.

When they meet Mr Ducie, Maurice takes complete hold of the situation by discarding his own name and taking Alec's, leaving Alec rather high and dry in his determination to make Maurice 'pay' for humiliating him, now that he realises that wasn't the case. By the end of the chapter, after having said everything that is on their minds about the situation, they both realise they are in love and Alec suggests they spend the night together.

Now the way is clear to Maurice; Alec must stay in England, Maurice will give up his home and job and they will be together. But Alec, the voice of harsh reason, dashes Maurice's hopes and leaves him anguished and alone in the hotel room. Maurice may well have gained insight, have realised Alec is 'the friend', or the beloved, but he has been deserted nevertheless. To attempt a positive note, at least he knows Alec loves him, and that he is as upset with having to part as Maurice himself is. But it's still raining and love has failed.

Some questions and ideas:

*Maurice appears to have some major enlightenments in this chapter; what do you think about that

*There seems to be a difference between the ending of this relationship and the ending of things with Clive. Does the respective honesty of all the men concerned have anything to do with this, do you think?

*What do you think about Alec knowing of a place they can stay the night?

*If this was the first time you had read the book, what do you think would be your opinion of how the last couple of chapters were going to end it?

Comments

[queen_ypolita]

The pictures are lovely! You've found a perfect picture for that description of rain.

About Maurice's realisations... he realises he's in love, that love made them scared, and that together, in love, they are brave enough to face the world. But for Alec the last bit is just a dream, nothing to do with the facts of social standing and fixed plans, and rejects the dream, so love only led Maurice to pain and loss. And most of it takes place within less than a day, giving him no time to process anything in between.

What do you think about Alec knowing of a place they can stay the night?
It sounds significant in one way or another, but on the other hand, Alec is the one who might have need to have somewhere to stay in London before, whereas Maurice would have been likely to go home or stay at Clive's (before the break-up). I suppose if they go to a hotel of Alec's choice, it's not going to be anything upmarket and posh that would make him feel uncomfortance and out of place. It might also mean fewer prying eyes. But I don't think he knows of a place because he's taken someone else there before.

[angie-sylvie.livejournal.com]

Yes, Queen Ypolita, your reason why Alec "knows a place" sounds most feasible. I was always somewhat bewildered by that line ( I noticed they didn't include it in the movie) as it makes it sound a bit like he's popping up to London for secret assignations on a regular basis!

Into The Greenwood, thanks for the information on the symbolism of the Assyrian bulls. I hadn't known that; very interesting. What a well-chosen spot for them to start to reconnect.

As for the ending if I didn't already know - I'd be passionately hoping for the best but probably expecting the worst.

[sweet_fallacy]

+ It's surely no coincidence that Forster had the two men walking between the figures

into_the_greenwood, you're amazing. This was exactly what I was waiting to bring up.

Lamassu:
Symbols of power and protection, massive winged sphinxes, or lamassu, have their roots in Babylonian magical traditions, although they are more usually associated with Assyrian culture (c.1000-600 BC). With the body of a bull or lion, sometimes with five legs, winged, and with bearded human heads, these sculptures were incorporated into important civic structures, such as the royal palace or city gateways. Some stood as high as 5m (16ft) and weighed as much as 30 tons. The lion and the bull symbolized masculine power, virility and sovereignty, although both animals were also associated with the moon goddess: the spectacular Ishtar Gate that led into the city of Babylon was decorated with lions, while the bull's horns on Ishtar's headdress denoted the crescent moon. The head of the lamassu symbolized the power of the sovereign to protect his people, the wings denoted his ability to fly, while the legs represented vigilance against both human and supernatural enemies who could attack from any direction. (Reference.)

The perfect symbol, imo. Not only do you have the masculinity and virility of the lion/bull, but the Lamassu's connection to the moon. Perhaps Forster did not mean to take it quite that far, but it's interesting to consider. (I'm rather enamored with the idea, myself.)

+ discarding his own name and taking Alec's, leaving Alec rather high and dry in his determination to make Maurice 'pay' for humiliating him, now that he realises that wasn't the case.

I don't think it was the use of his name that made Alec lose his wind. In fact, I thought it infuriated him even more for a gentleman to hide behind his name. He seemed indignant, pointing out Maurice's lie and bringing up his "serious charge" to a complete stranger.

So what made him back down? Perhaps it was how smoothly Maurice handled the situation, how Mr. Ducie remained ignorant of how serious it was despite Alec's claim... or maybe it was the simple press of fingertips against the nape of his neck, that little hint of intimacy.

+ Maurice appears to have some major enlightenments in this chapter; what do you think about that

I still think he's a self-centered fool, but it's a big step in the right direction for at least he knows what he wants. Plus his experience with Clive and all that worry over potential blackmail made him realize that the likelihood of finding another friend such as Alec was slim to none.

+ There seems to be a difference between the ending of this relationship and the ending of things with Clive. Does the respective honesty of all the men concerned have anything to do with this, do you think?

While Clive's inner turmoil may have only served to further confuse Maurice, Clive continues to drag their charade of a friendship on for the sake of his own guilt. Rather than help Maurice, this has made him bitter and urged him to find some end to his misery. Alec, on the other hand, was rather upfront, but even that honesty said that their love was too dangerous and not worth the risk. If Alec had kept his word and left for good, then what would that have done to Maurice? Dr. Lasker-Jones pretty much told him that hypnotism would be of no further help, so it's not like he could continue as he had with some hope of a cure. Would he eventually give into Lust and seek out the occasional clandestine affair? Would he fall in love again? Would he forever pine over Scudder, maybe take his own life for real this time? (Thank you Forster for your insistence on a happy ending.)

+ What do you think about Alec knowing of a place they can stay the night?

Suspicious? Yeah. Alec could have just passed it on the street and assumed a room would afford them all the privacy they needed, but maybe he's stayed there before (with or without women) or he heard about it. Whichever it was, I doubt Alec has been with men there. We know that their night together was Maurice's first time, but Alec's threats give the impression that he believes a lot more went on between Clive and Maurice than what actually happened. And that leads me to believe that Alec didn't have much experience with men, if at all, enough so that he didn't pick up on Maurice's inexperience.