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never_be_parted2009-06-07 05:17 pm
Book discussion: Chapters 9-11
Chapters 9-11
In Chapter 9, Maurice realises that he's lost the sensivity to Clive's moods and behaviour he'd have interpreted without any problem before the Easter break. Despite this, they found themselves closer than ever, embracing for the first time, when they are rudely interrupted by Maurice's other friends. At the end of the chapter, later that day, we find that Clive assumed Maurice's affectionate gestures earlier were purposeful and informed by his reading of the Symposium. But Clive got it wrong - Maurice never connected to the Symposium to his friendship with Clive, and is deeply shocked, "to the bottom of his suburban soul", and calls Clive's confession of being in love as nonsense. In Chapter 10, Maurice goes through a turmoil of emotions when he processes everything that happened with Clive so far and what it means. He's upset that Clive's not talking to him unless it's necessary to maintain the illusion of nothing being wrong. But after a frantic night he wakes up with the knowledge: "He loved men and always had loved them. He longed to embrace them and mingle his being with theirs." |
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| Chapter 11 presents us with Maurice's attempts to talk to Clive who is not being very receptive, assuming that Maurice is not being serious. He tells Maurice to "[g]et married quickly and forget", which we the readers, with access to Maurice's thoughts, know he's not the least likely to do. When Maurice pushes on and says he's always "been like the Greeks and didn't know", words still fail him when Clive asks him to explain what he means. What follows is another night of turmoil, and the chapter ends with a dream calling him to Clive. |  |
A couple of questions for you:
Do you think Clive's approach of assuming that Maurice understands the implication of why he was asked to read the Symposium was sensible? If not, what do you think he could have done?
Do you think Clive is being hard on Maurice?
For the full schedule of the Maurice book discussion, see this post.
Photo credits:
Two young men: YlvaS on Flickr, used under Creative Commons By-Noncommercial-No derivate licence
Punt on the Cam: f.m. suchanek on Flickr, used under Creative Commons By-Noncommercial-No derivate licence
no subject
While a letter may have been preferable, somehow it's easier to use the words of others and I think Plato was a source of comfort for him. When he says, "I had no right to move out of my books and music, which was what I did when I met you," we learn that Clive very likely doesn't have a lot of experience with homosexuality. He may have felt that putting the idea across with this ideal of a Higher Love was more acceptable.
My guess is that A) Clive himself didn't make the connection until he read Symposium or something similar, or B) he realized it beforehand, but felt that he was alone in this sinful nature until he saw evidence of it elsewhere (i.e. in books and music). (I'm leaning toward B.) If either were the case, it would be safe to assume that he hoped the same revelation would fall upon Maurice. And in giving Maurice this recommended reading, he would understand what Clive was trying to say... much like how nowadays a boy/girl may make a mixed cd for their love interest instead of a letter. (Also, a letter would have been more incriminating, though I'm not sure if Clive had thought of that at the time.)
The fact that Maurice didn't make the connection leads me to believe that he's willfully blind. And an idiot. Seriously Clive, just give him a hit upside the head and have your way with him. He'll like it, I swear.
+ Do you think Clive is being hard on Maurice?
Even if he didn't love Clive in return, Maurice was an ass for being so insensitive to his friend's feelings in the first place. Clive took a great risk confessing to him and stripped of his rose-colored glasses of infatuation, Durham realized the situation he had put himself in -- "Most men would have reported me to the Dean or the Police." -- and what he stood to lose. Hurt and scared, he sought to remove himself from the situation by reverting back to the aloof nature of a scholar. Chapman had warned Maurice of how Clive could be once he grew bored of you, but this gave me reason to believe that it's a mechanism of self defense.
In fact, I strongly believe that this hurt lead to Clive's persistent distance for the rest of the book. Despite how affectionately things had started off between them, Clive pulls away when it comes to intimacy. He puts such an emphasis on platonic love that one must wonder if he truly believes this or he's hiding behind this excuse. For if Maurice could deny him once then it could certainly happen again, and what consequences would he face then? It must have been quite a wake-up call and so the seed of doubt had been planted.
In the end, I believe that while Clive clung to the ideal of a Higher Love for self validation, he could have been moved by it's more physical aspects if not for Maurice's dunderheaded move.
Clive's approach
That makes sense. And like you, I think B is likely (from what I remember from Ch12 without looking it up). Thanks for the Stephen Fry link, by the way!
Clive and intimacy
I've never thought of it like that but it's a very good explanation!
no subject
Yes, Maurice is being a bit dim all round - during the vac he gets pulled back into his own mental stagnation which can't help matters. I agree that Maurice would like it if Clive were to just get on and do something, but I'm not entirely sure that Clive himself would.
no subject
Agreed.
no subject
I can understand this a little, however Maurice, after he's got over the shock, definitely shows Clive that he's interested and wants him. Has Clive had a previous experience go wrong like it did with Maurice initially to have put him off the whole idea of taking things further? It seems somewhat extreme for Clive to eschew everything about being homosexual because of Maurice's initial shock and rejection. Maurice does his utmost to change things and yet Clive is adamant. If he hasn't had a previous experience then I think it's an altogether over the top reaction, and strengthens my feeling that he either did not really want a physical relationship...or alternatively, that the idea of one and the possible implications of having one were too frightening for him to go ahead once he had been able to think about it. In which case he's using Maurice in a way to justify his own actions, and that's not very fair on Maurice who has realised he loves Clive and wants some physicality to their relationship.
no subject
I'm not as certain of that. I can't deny the possibility that Clive was looking for nothing more than a platonic relationship, but he took a great risk in confessing to Maurice. How many men have committed suicide because they'd rather die than live a lie or be found out? Maybe they were overacting, but like Clive, many stood to lose everything of the life they knew. The only life they knew.
His reputation would be ruined and he'd lose standing amongst his peers. He'd probably be expelled from university. His family could disown him from the shame, thus losing his home and any chance of inheritance. So if he's having doubts or is a little reluctant to have faith in Maurice now that he's been spurned once, I'd say it was understandable considering the circumstances.
he's using Maurice in a way to justify his own actions
Yeah, he is! Not in an intentionally malicious way, but I have wondered if his convincing Maurice was to further validate his own beliefs.
no subject