I always felt that Clive needed to give himself permission to be himself. He was deeply religious as a child, believing he was being punished and doomed to a life without love. He tried his damnedest to not make one misstep, but that only lead to a breakdown. Plato told him that he wasn't alone and that there was a way to live with this "taint" as long as it was controlled. Since Christianity couldn't abide by his sort even existing, Clive chose something that gave him a little more leeway. But even so, he still held to God and his guilt, which would later reemerge.
I like to believe that things may have different if not for the way Maurice had unintentionally toyed with Clive's emotions. At one point it says, "his emotion, more compact than Maurice's, was not split into the brutal and the ideal, nor did he waste years in bridging the gulf." This says to me that if he couldn't give himself emotionally to Maurice, then of course it would never become physical. When Maurice rejected him, Clive had begun to revert to his old way of thinking. Maurice had bowed down to Clive's will in so many matters (religion, flannel trousers, skipping lectures...) that he felt responsible for his influence over Maurice. When Maurice finally confessed, it was only too obvious to Clive that this was his own doing and thus his guilt was given a new wind. "He never dare be friends with a young man again, for fear of corrupting him."
I see some believe that their relationship was doomed from the start, but I can't be as certain. Okay, so Maurice didn't appear to be the best candidate when Clive described him as, "bourgeois, unfinished and stupid--the worst of confidants." (I want to say that part of his opinion came from his snobbish background.) But he did see many qualities in Maurice that he was drawn to. His willingness to listen, how he put Clive before others, teased Clive where others held off, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Clive later praises Maurice for having some sort of insight, reading the words beyond words in people. Oh, there was also that bit about how he "liked being thrown around by a powerful and handsome boy." (Yum!) Clive wanted to be recognized not just for his cleverness, but on another level and somehow he felt that Maurice answered that.
Okay, so, the questions:
*Does the insight into Clive's way of thinking reinforce the idea of his and Maurice's fundamental unsuitability for each other? It proves a great obstacle, but not necessarily a fundamental unsuitability.
*Do you think Clive could have ever come round to a different way of thinking? What would have been the results if Clive had not come to this conclusion – would they be any different to what does happen or would Penge and his duty towards the family and the estate always dictate how far he could go with his homosexuality. In other words, no matter what conclusions Clive came to, was there relationship doomed because of circumstance, never mind anything else? Clive had already proven that his family and duties would not dictate his doings, but that it was a fragile situation. He could have flourished in the right circumstances, but unfortunately this did not happen.
*Do you think the crash in Ch 13 a metaphor for Clive and Maurice's relationship? Not necessarily. It may have reflected their recklessness, but not the crash that was to come in their relationship, for it lead to their perfect day whereas their falling apart lead to misery.
*What do you think the significance is of Clive stepping of the dyke and going under, whilst Maurice strips and happily swims? I hadn't put much thought into it.
*Of their day together, what do you think Forster means by giving them such a lovely day, then splitting them apart directly afterwards? It was the epitome of platonic love, the highlight of their time together, and it clearly pointed out that Maurice wanted more despite wanting to be satisfied with what he had.
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I like to believe that things may have different if not for the way Maurice had unintentionally toyed with Clive's emotions. At one point it says, "his emotion, more compact than Maurice's, was not split into the brutal and the ideal, nor did he waste years in bridging the gulf." This says to me that if he couldn't give himself emotionally to Maurice, then of course it would never become physical. When Maurice rejected him, Clive had begun to revert to his old way of thinking. Maurice had bowed down to Clive's will in so many matters (religion, flannel trousers, skipping lectures...) that he felt responsible for his influence over Maurice. When Maurice finally confessed, it was only too obvious to Clive that this was his own doing and thus his guilt was given a new wind. "He never dare be friends with a young man again, for fear of corrupting him."
I see some believe that their relationship was doomed from the start, but I can't be as certain. Okay, so Maurice didn't appear to be the best candidate when Clive described him as, "bourgeois, unfinished and stupid--the worst of confidants." (I want to say that part of his opinion came from his snobbish background.) But he did see many qualities in Maurice that he was drawn to. His willingness to listen, how he put Clive before others, teased Clive where others held off, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Clive later praises Maurice for having some sort of insight, reading the words beyond words in people. Oh, there was also that bit about how he "liked being thrown around by a powerful and handsome boy." (Yum!) Clive wanted to be recognized not just for his cleverness, but on another level and somehow he felt that Maurice answered that.
Okay, so, the questions:
*Does the insight into Clive's way of thinking reinforce the idea of his and Maurice's fundamental unsuitability for each other? It proves a great obstacle, but not necessarily a fundamental unsuitability.
*Do you think Clive could have ever come round to a different way of thinking? What would have been the results if Clive had not come to this conclusion – would they be any different to what does happen or would Penge and his duty towards the family and the estate always dictate how far he could go with his homosexuality. In other words, no matter what conclusions Clive came to, was there relationship doomed because of circumstance, never mind anything else?
Clive had already proven that his family and duties would not dictate his doings, but that it was a fragile situation. He could have flourished in the right circumstances, but unfortunately this did not happen.
*Do you think the crash in Ch 13 a metaphor for Clive and Maurice's relationship?
Not necessarily. It may have reflected their recklessness, but not the crash that was to come in their relationship, for it lead to their perfect day whereas their falling apart lead to misery.
*What do you think the significance is of Clive stepping of the dyke and going under, whilst Maurice strips and happily swims?
I hadn't put much thought into it.
*Of their day together, what do you think Forster means by giving them such a lovely day, then splitting them apart directly afterwards?
It was the epitome of platonic love, the highlight of their time together, and it clearly pointed out that Maurice wanted more despite wanting to be satisfied with what he had.